This wasn’t a topic that I thought I would be addressing, but I think that in the current climate I must. While I understand the urge to urinate on Taliban prisoners, the act was wrong and it would have been my duty to prevent my Marines from committing such an act. I hope that I would have done my duty in that regard.
It is far too easy to fall into the trap of justifying this act by saying that the Taliban have done worse (they have repeatedly) or by excusing this as part of war. That’s a moral hazard we all should avoid. It was wrong and we shouldn’t attempt to rationalize it away.
At the very beginning of my career a combat veteran told me “never discount the potential ferocity of the American teenager.” I never forgot that caution. He meant that if left unsupervised and if not properly lead Marines could under the pressure of combat do horrible or deplorable things. It was my job as it is the job of all Officers and Non-Commissioned Officers to prevent that from happening. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t give a crap about the Taliban and their feelings. Rather my only concern is for the young Marines concerned. I want them to come home with their heads held high. It’s our duty to bring Marines (soldiers, sailors, airmen, or coasties) home in such a manner that they are proud of their service and themselves. To that end, defiling enemy dead is wrong and we have to prevent our men and women in uniform from engaging in such a practice.
However now that the Commandant of the Marine Corps, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, and the President’s press stooge have all weighed in with their opinion of the incident I see no way that these young Marines will ever be treated fairly. That my friends is very, very wrong.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton knows nothing of honor and she should shut the hell up. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta and the Commandant of the Marine Corps should back the hell off and send a very clear signal that unit leaders in that Marine Infantry Battalion should deal with the violation as if the entire World wasn’t looking over their shoulder. It is unconscionable to do otherwise. It is the sworn duty of all these people to ensure that justice and not vengeance is done.
If the President of Afghanistan, the entire Muslim world, or anyone else isn’t happy with justice – they can go screw themselves.
Or get pissed on.
ReplyDeleteAmigo,
ReplyDeleteI see and understand your point. War is ugly.
If you were my C.O., you wouldn't have caught me pissing on the Taliban as I and my buds wouldn't have been dumb enough to post it on YouTube in the first place much less talk about it afterwards.
That said, we must not discount what transpired before the ensuing firefight. The Taliban have skinned some of our guys alive. I'm not condoning their action but their stupidity lies in posting it for the world to see.
I personally don't have a problem with it. Piss away Marines! I hope they used pig fat lubricated bullets on those cave-dwellers.
Sadly, their carreers as Marines is over. As you said they will never recieve a fair trial.
Before that occurs I demand that we have a trial for the murderers of Richard pearl, the Air Force Sniper Team, and The Blackwater team that were tortured, burned and dragged threw the streets... then we'll have a trial of our guys.
In the meantime, the left and the rest of the world that is outraged at this can go piss up a rope in a high wind.
Tenth,
ReplyDeleteNow, now . . . . I think you missed the message.
No, Sir. Got it loud and clear. Kill 'em. Blow 'em away. Destroy their ability to make war. Deny them supplies. Don't let them rest. Kill them. But don't make em mad.
DeleteI think we should have been showing them this on the world wide web since October 24, 1983. Fuck em.
Tenth,
DeleteAgreed - but I don't care about "them" - only our guys.
Hardnox,
ReplyDeleteIt's tough having to wear the white hats, but we are the ones that do.
The troops do have a way of evening the score however. After hearing about the Massacre at Malmedy during World War II, it was amazing how few German prisoners were taken until the fury in the ranks passed.
I think the troops will take this one in stride - but I think that the Taliban better dig a hole and stay in it for awhile.
Very well put,CS. The only mistake here was filming themselves to begin with. Sadly,you are correct in that they'll NEVER get a fair shake on this. Wonder why we aren't hearing about Obama not being able to control HIS troops? You know full well what the idiotic left would have said had this happened under Bush.
ReplyDeleteBingo. Bush took the "The Buck Stops Here" sign with him when he left, according to Obama.
DeleteHave not earned my bones to be able to comment on this particular post... just let me say I am reading and digesting this post and all comments as well. Thanx to all of you!
ReplyDeletePissing on the bodies of the guys who were mere minutes ago trying to kill you and your friends probably IS "wrong" on many levels but, well deserved on other levels.
ReplyDeleteThese Marines are going to be tried in the court of political correctness as opposed to the UCMJ doing it's job.
My big gripe about all this is the stinking pile of hypocrisy on display by the left and, the Taliban.
Hacking people's heads off and posting a video has never seemed to "outrage" the Taliban...but pissing on a dead guy who was shooting at you IS an outrage?
And then we have the leftists who are delighted to see the military being shit on at every opportunity also "outraged" at the Marines' conduct...while a week ago they were cheering the idea of shitting on cop cars and flags in plain view of anyone walking by.
I'd bet that the left would be cheering had those Marines draped our flag over those dead Taliban before peeing on them.
-Sepp,
DeleteNo doubt. The only Marine that the left (democrats, liberals, progressives, whatever) has shown any affection for is that traitor who got beaned by a gas grenade in Oakland.
I used to teach my Marines that what HAPPENS on a deployment STAYS on the deployment. In other words, NO VIDEO! NO PICTURES!
ReplyDeleteWTF over Leathernecks?
Gunny,
DeleteLife was simpler before everyone had a video camera in their pocket.
CS- I would like to give my opinion. I think what these Marines did was diplorable. It seems like it was an act, by young men who are taking this personally. Now, I know I've never been in combat, but it would seem to me, that when you take a war personally, that is when you start developing mental issues. PTSD. Am I wrong.
ReplyDeleteBut, I think trying these men in a court of law, is also dispicable. Couldn't they just receive some "In-House" punishment through the Corps? I mean COME-ON. We are asking these boys to engage in actions that will cause death. Now that I think about it, I can easily see how one could let war get personal.
To the Marine shooting the video. What the F##k were you thinking. Are you retarded?
Anyway, that's my perspective. Hopefully everything works out for these young men.
Johnny,
DeleteYou are always welcome. I think that leaders in any of the services owe it to their troops to keep things in the proper perspective. If troops are allowed to get out of control by defiling enemy dead for example I think that we are doing these troops a severe disservice.
We have to ensure that our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines can come home with honor.
As for the Marines in this incident. That's the kind of thing that a lieutenant should has said "Sergeant! Make those jokers stop that s**t! Right now!"
The danger here is that we make a bigger issue of it than it really is. Just because Leon Panetta said it was "utterly deplorable" doesn't mean that these poor Marines need to get drummed out of the service. I think that it is "utterly deplorable" that the Department of Defense was turned over to a third-rate political hack.
Panetta did serve two years in the Army. That makes him pretty senior in the Obama administration.
DeleteThese guys did nothing wrong. Like farting in church, what they did was uncouth, but not illegal. Perhaps it was poor judgement, but it was not illegal activity.
Johnny,
I defy you to find anything more personal than someone shooting at you. Blowing you up is an option you could use, but that backs up my point. I guess rape is pretty damn personal.
Tenth,
DeleteI think it is dangerous to say that this action wasn't wrong - it was. We shouldn't rationalize it away. With that said, it wasn't serious and shouldn't be treated as a felony. The Marine Corps must resist the temptation to harshly punish these guys when had their leadership been on the ball - all they would have got was a good ole fashioned ass chewing.
We need for these Marines to be justly treated and not crucified to make some pinhead in Washington or Kabul happy.
Guys Guys- Maybe my point was misunderstood. I didn't mean it was diplorable to the U.S. I'm afraid it might be diplorable to themselves. They are Marines, and should hold that title with great dignity. My biggest concern, is that this will be the one thing they regret as they grow old. And I don't want them to regret anything.
ReplyDeleteI'm not here to judge these young men. God knows, it's a good chance, I would have done the same thing. I just want these young men to come back home, safe and sound. By safe, I mean alive. By sound, I mean no regrets.
I could care less about some dead extremist Raghead getting p####d on. I care about the Men and boys defending my freedoms. And I want them to be physically healthy upon their return. But I also want them to be mentally healthy.
Hope this clears everything up.............
Johnny,
DeleteWe are on the same wavelength. Thanks.